The Über Rock Interview: Lord Ragnar Wagner and Dr Pain (The Heretic Order)

Written by Rich Hobson
Saturday, 26 May 2018 04:00

The classic vein of heavy metal might just be coming back around into the hearts of metalheads worldwide, but British stalwarts The Heretic Order never lost the faith, 2015’s debut release ‘All Hail The Order’ championing paganism, theatrical leanings and all things wicked. The band are back with a new record this summer and will be hitting the road in June – and have just this past week been confirmed for this year’s Bloodstock festival!

With things obviously on the upswing for the band, I caught up to vocalist Lord Ragnar Wagner and drummer Dr Pain to see what we can expect of the new record and how heavy metal is faring in 2018… I started by asking for a progress report on the aforementioned new album…

Lord Ragnar Wagner (vocals): The second album is finished and will be released through Massacre records. The album will be called ‘Evil Rising’ and will be out in June. We’re already booking some dates just before as well – we want to make June as busy as possible.

What approach have you taken with the new album – more of what we got with the debut, or a change of pace?

Lord Ragnar Wagner: Lyrically, we’ve stepped it up some. We’re telling tales – that’s what I love, the Phil Lynott method of telling stories, with Iron Maiden structure. It’s not about feelings or bollocks like that! We’ve got songs about Vlad the Impaler, Gilles de Rais… one about the Nicean Council, where the Christians first got together and basically wrote the fucking bible. All this shit – primarily our subject is the occult and paganism; I thrive on those subjects, history and the dark side of humanity… we’re a bastard race.

Vlad the Impaler – hero or villain?

Lord Ragnar Wagner: A hero, of course. He knew how to deal with invaders – impale them! Gilles de Rais too; he was framed. He was a sub-lieutenant of Joan of Arc, later he was too powerful to be part of the kingdom so they invented a story that he was a child rapist and murderer, so they could torture him. Under torture he admitted his crimes, but when they poke a hot red metal rod up your – whatever – and take away your nails, you’ll say anything to make it stop. Whoever has control and wins the war, they write history. Maybe he was a serial killer after all, but we’ll never know. Just look at the Nicean Council – all the bullshit done by Christianity, saying ‘this is okay, this isn’t’ – Jesus and God didn’t write that bible, people did.

These are the topics I’m really interested in – séances, spiritualism and reincarnation. Talking about death – my father passed away two years ago, I was there when he actually passed. It was the first time I’d ever saw death and it’s a very hard subject. It’s the question of whether it is the last journey, if there’s something more. Lyrical-wise, it’s very intensive. Musically, it’s very good too – Andy came through and his technical playing really lifts it. It’s heavier, breathtaking solos – what can I say; I love it!

Do you think the break between records has given you a chance to refine your sound and build on the theatrical elements of the band?

Lord Ragnar Wagner: I think so, yes. We took a lot of time out to do this properly, recording it between Madrid and London, so we’ve been around. We’re very demanding of our music – we did some stuff, re-did it and re-did it again. We had the opportunity to extend our playing and liaise with Massacre, who really believe in what we’re doing. You know how it is nowadays – they won’t just throw a heap of money your way. Which I suppose is good, it gives you the liberty to compose what the band wants with no outside input. The first album dropped in November 2015, which is a while by nowadays standards, but it’s worth it.

Dr Pain (drums): You can’t just hole up in a studio for three weeks now like you used to.

With it coming out in the summer, can we expect wall-to-wall party anthems?

Lord Ragnar Wagner: Sing-alongs! [laughs] These are songs to clench your fist and bang your head.

Do you think the renewed interest in bands with occult imagery and a traditional heavy metal sound (so Ghost, Psychedelic Witchcraft etc.) gives you more scope on what you could hope to achieve?

Lord Ragnar Wagner: It gives it a seriousness again. As a kid, I was a big fan of King Diamond – I love that shit. I always strive for that vibe and Ghost has got that retro vibe, especially with the minor chords and changes. Music is very circular and heavy metal is coming back around again. It dipped after the new wave of British heavy metal, came back a bit with thrash and dipped again. Mid-90s, you wanted to play classical heavy metal, or do anything that wasn’t what everyone else was? Forget about it! Now it’s back and bands can go around doing what they actually want to do, without having some record label interfering. The people in the record industry don’t have a fucking clue what people want! The true fans and true bands know that they like what they do. I’m a fan and metal is still metal; I saw King Diamond play to a sold-out crowd. Metal is dead? Fuck off.

Dr Pain: That’s the massive advantage of the internet; you can say a lot about how it’s destroyed sales and the money side of things, but all the same it gives fans a chance to find what they like rather than turning up to a store and having to choose between 10 albums, hoping one is decent. Now you can know, find it, and invest in it if you want.

You went out to Europe last year – do you think European audiences are more predisposed to love the classic heavy metal sound, as it never really went out of fashion?

Lord Ragnar Wagner: Heavy metal is not an embarrassing word and the Heretic Order is a heavy metal band – I’m proud of that. You meet so many bands going round in circles with subgenres, bollocks this and bollocks that – music is music. It is heavy metal, like it or not. It was the beginning, it will be at the end. Nowadays you need a dictionary to figure out what bands are. When I was a lad you were just into metal – you could have a patch of Iron Maiden, a patch for Rainbow and one for Venom. There was no problem in liking those three bands, it was all the same thing. Nowadays it seems like you can’t like one thing if you like another – treating it like its impossible to like Strapping Young Lad and Dimmu Borgir. It’s about rebelliousness – there’s no rules, so don’t pigeonhole it.

What have you learned from going out to Europe and playing alongside other bands?

Lord Ragnar Wagner: It’s a good experience. It’s not my first experience; I’m an ancient guy. But it was like coming back to reality, we went out with I Am Morbid last summer, with David Vincent and it was amazing. I mean, it’s Morbid Angel’s David Vincent and the original drummer, doing the first three Morbid Angel albums. We got to go around Europe, which really builds confidence towards the stage.

Dr Pain: From those gigs as well, you could tell just how much had gone in to getting the music perfect. And that’s what it’s ultimately about – it doesn’t matter what else you throw in the mix, if the music isn’t great there’s just no point. Seeing just how great that technical stuff was, hearing it played perfect every single night, we have massive respect for that.

Lord Ragnar Wagner: He’s a legend. We’re very lucky – we’ve supported Exodus as well, Diamond Head… in our span of life we’ve had some great chances. Other bands will go years and years just to get small chances like that, but the devil is with us – he’s guiding us!

‘Evil Rising’ is due out on 22 June, via Massacre Records. The Heretic Order play the following dates in June:

Friday 15 – Leeds, Meat Locker Temple Of Boom

Saturday 16 – Oxford, The Cellar

Sunday 17 – Coventry, The Archers

Wednesday 20 – Leicester, Firebug

Thursday 21 – Folkestone, The Harp

Saturday 23 – Birmingham – O2 Academy 3

Monday 25 – Grimsby, Yardbirds

They also play the Jägermeister Stage at Bloodstock on Friday 10 August.

www.facebook.com/thehereticorder/

PHOTO CREDIT: Photographs courtesy of SD Photography/Hammerfest