Jack Black – The Boys – Uber Rock Interview Exclusive
Written by Dom Daley
Sunday, 27 April 2014 04:00
After God knows how long, The Boys have finally reconvened in the studio to deliver one of the year’s most hotly anticipated albums. An album that looks set for release this summer if everything goes to plan. So why exactly are this UK band quite so revered? Well The Boys managed to endure several musical climates and influenced many bands through the generations with some of the finest songs and albums old Blighty ever gave up. With an incredible story to tell I was offered the opportunity to fire a few questions at original drummer and keeper of the band’s photo albums and scrapbooks. Sit back pour a drink and let Jack Black tell you how it was from the engine room of one of England’s finest rock and roll bands.
Hi Jack thanks for taking the time to talk to me today. If you don’t mind lets start at the beginning and your route into The Boys was through Duncan right?
I was at school with Duncan from when we were about 13 or so and after I left school I moved to Chiswick Polytechnic. Duncan was working round the corner at a T-Shirt factory and I got a job there too. John was our boss and I gelled with him straight away, we discussed music a lot. John informed us that he was in a band who were looking for a bass player and drummer, so he took us along to Matt’s place to meet Matt and Cas.
Did you have to perform an audition to get in?
Well they certainly didn’t let us join before they heard us play. (laughing) Duncan was a good bass player and we’d been playing bass & drums together since we were 13 or 14 so we were a tight unit and when the others heard us play we were in. Having only previously played in school bands with Duncan, and in Poland, it felt like we’d won The Pools. It was hard to believe because the songs which Matt and Cas were writing were incredible, I loved every minute I was in The Boys.
What was your knowledge of the members of the band?
When we joined The Boys I was into Uriah Heep and Duncan was into Genesis, so at that time we weren’t aware of the others, although it soon became clear that Matt and Cas were right at the centre of what became the punk movement. We were in awe of them.
Being so young can you remember what you thought of the older ‘Boys’? I mean how did you see the band progressing early on? Was being in the band what you expected it to be?
I loved John straight away and we became best mates, the other members of the band referred to us as “The Big Two”. Cas, Duncan and myself were Arsenal fans so that helped us to gel as a group. We spent many a happy Saturday afternoon and the occasional drizzly Wednesday night watching our favourite team. We used to meet in the Sussex Arms in Paddington as Cas had a flat a couple of doors down, have a few beers and down to the Gunners. And I did start a few chants on the terraces.
Were you able to have a voice in the band seeing as they wrote the tunes (well most of them), and was it ever you and Duncan v’s the others getting an opinion across?
I suppose it was a little bit at first, I was the drummer and Duncan was the bass player and they were the writers, although John wasn’t writing at the time so he didn’t get much of a say either. I was very happy to be in the band and was happy to go along with most things that Matt and Cas wanted. Occasionally I suggested something but basically it was left to Matt and Cas. I didn’t think too much about it at the time, I was just so pleased to be in the band.
You only had limited experience of being part of a band at that age what experiences stand out just as the band were beginning?
It was just such an incredibly exciting time for me.
When you began rehearsing with the band did the songs change a lot from when they were presented to you to what we know them as today? For example you would have been responsible for the tempo, did that change due to punk being faster?
Matt, Cas and John were into The Beatles, Stones and Small Faces so they had originally formed The Boys as a beat band. Punk seemed to come about in the space of about two weeks so all our songs ended up getting faster and faster.
What other drummers did you admire either in your circle of bands you played with or your peers.
I liked Lee Kerslake (Uriah Heep) and John Bonham (Led Zeppelin). We all went to see The Heartbreakers early on and I loved Jerry Nolan’s drumming, his high arm action certainly influenced me. Although it didn’t really bother me what other drummers were doing, there were a lot a crap drummers around and because punk songs were so fast there weren’t many drummers who stood out. The drummer with John Cale was amazing, incredibly technical but he only lasted one or two gigs as John Cale bit the chicken’s head off. My job in The Boys was to keep the beat and not be too technical.
I don’t think many kids today can quite believe what an impact punk had on the music and fashion of the ‘70s. What was your take on how everything changed and how exciting was it to be right in the middle of all that?
It was fantastic to be right there and mess about with fashion for a bit, I remember having pink trousers and John had some leopard skin ones. Ken Mewis cut our hair, we wanted to look like a band, and I think we did. And then we started to dye our hair which a lot of bands like The Jam copied, although it was difficult for their drummer as his hair started falling out in Mont De Marson. Cas had been in the Hollywood Brats, and they were such an early influence on the punk movement. And those visiting Matt’s studio in Maida Vale was like a who’s who of punk.
What other bands had an impact on you personally (bands like Johnny thunders, Blondie, the Ramones) are there any friendships from back them that are still intact?
My favourite band was Uriah Heep, I also liked Led Zeppelin, Jethro Tull & Status Quo and I was watching Gary Holton & The Heavy Metal Kids before anyone else. From the punk movement I really liked The Heartbreakers, the Ramones and The Rezillos. I’m still good friends with Matt, Cas and John and also with Mark Harrison from the Bernie Torme Band.
There seemed to be a big influence from across the Atlantic and I always thought The Boys had more in common with that (and especially the more eclectic) scene that grew out of New York would that be a fair comment? The melodies of the Ramones and that CBGB’s scene The Boys seemed to be comfortable doing their own thing rather than copying the bigger acts in the London scene.
I don’t think we were influenced too much by either the New York or London scenes as Matt and Cas had their own ideas, and we were confident of the direction they were taking us. We always believed it was only a matter of time before we had a hit.
What are your fondest memories from those early tours? I have a good friend who recorded a gig you did in Swansea on his cassette recorder where you had to press play and record together and he still goes on about that show in one of our (long gone) more salubrious venues. What were those gigs like from the other side of the stage? It always looks like bands weren’t afraid of a bit of graft back then and were happy to tour the length and breadth of the UK. What were those treks like from your perspective?
It was a classic case of getting in a transit van and tossing a coin for who’s gonna sit in the front seat with the rest of us in the back with all the equipment. We used to play cards in the back of the van where it was very dark and one of the most disappointing things that happened in The Boys was when Duncan marked the cards which we perceived as an attempt to rip us off, you just don’t do that to your bandmates. He got a mega bollocking, but we forgave him.
Many times we travelled to different places and would travel back the same night. I’d get dropped off in Ealing as they made their way round the north circular road to Maida Vale. We also had to set up our own equipment because we didn’t have roadies at that time so it was hard work but it was us against them. We always had a great time though, and also put on a great show. As soon as anyone worked with us they wanted to work with us again, it was great fun on the road.
The Elvis death situation, with the record pressing plant switching from pressing your records to only Elvis product is a thing of legend. Did you have any comprehension at the time what an impact it was having and what would a mature Jack Black advise the band looking back?
Well it was a nightmare, we all felt we were being fucked about so eventually we went on strike. ‘First Time’ and ‘Brickfield Nights’ would have both been massive hits had we been with another record company. We could have signed for Polydor or anyone else and who knows where we’d be now, but the fact that we were all in it together certainly made the band closer. There was the guy from MAM Records, Barry something or other who wanted to sign us, he said we were the best thing since Queen! If I could go back my advice to the band would certainly be don’t sign for NEMS!
You mentioned you loved playing live but were you someone who preferred the recording environment and experience or did they go hand in hand?
I think they went hand in hand. You had to play a lot of live gigs to get tight and we were always recording stuff in the studio, I suppose we were very lucky to have Matt’s studio to use whenever we wanted. I just loved it all.
Were you keen to get involved in the recording process and did you have a say in who produced the records or was that out of the bands hands?
I was very excited about going into a recording studio, I never imagined that I’d be on an album let alone several albums, I was the drummer, I went in and did my stuff and then it was mostly left to Matt and Cas. They produced our first two albums, although originally NEMS tried to bring in Pete Gage but after a few days it was clear that he’d no idea how to get the best sound for the band so Matt and Cas took over.
You got to record in Wales at Rockfield (which is such an awesome place) what do you remember of your time in such historical rock and roll surroundings. It must be a great place to record do you have any particular memories of that institution?
Rockfield was fantastic, there’s so many stories from there to tell. When we arrived there were people cooking for us and the fridges were full of bacon, sausages and eggs but with our dinner they only put out one bottle of red wine and one bottle of white and that was very quickly changed to six bottles of each! Monmouth had about fourteen pubs and we started off having a pint in each pub but we never made it to the last one!
Another time me and John got hold of an air rifle and when the van came up the hill we shot the lights out, and everyone was going nuts at us. We also used to play killer in the big house which got very dark at night.
I remember watching TV one day and the local weather forecast for Wales came on and Cas came out with the classic “I didn’t know they had a weather forecast for whales”. Cas has such a fantastic dry sense of humour and he’s a lovely guy too, I’ve never heard anyone ever have a bad word to say about him.
When you were recording songs like ‘Brickfield Nights’ and ‘TCP’ did you instantly know then that they were going to be so popular did they stand out when recording as potential hits?
Yeah they were great songs but Matt, Cas and John were writing so many classics at the time, you could only hope that they would receive the recognition they deserved. I thought ‘TCP’ should have been a single and I seem to recall that Paul Adrians agreed with me. ‘Brickfield Nights’ may have flopped at the time but I think it is now regarded as a classic and Matt’s vocal is awesome, he’s one of the best singers to come out of the punk movement and a great guy too.
Listening to the bonus material on the recent re issues it’s really interesting to hear tracks like ‘Brickfield Nights’ with an acoustic and rhythmic drumming, was that how most of the stuff was done? Is there anything else now left over?
I love that version Matt recorded and I also love the acoustic version with Campi too. Matt, Cas and John were such prolific songwriters that we always had stuff to record, and with Matt owning his own studio we recorded loads of unreleased stuff. I think Matt has copies of everything you’d be best asking him what’s left.
Which album do you think had the best songs on it? I mean Is ‘Terminal love’ (my personal fave) the best song that ever came out of The Boys?
I love all The Boys albums too much to be able to pick a favourite. They were each one different from each other, and great in their own way. From the day I joined The Boys it was clear that Matt and Cas were great songwriters, and Matt’s lyrics were superb. John didn’t originally write and then came up with ‘First Time’, ‘TCP’ and as you say ‘Terminal Love’, which is certainly one of his best songs.
Going back to live performances. The band had a reputation for being a great live band and also enjoying the lifestyle whilst on the road, never being ones to shy from a party. Did that ever impinge upon your performances?
We were a very good live band, we could all play. We left the partying until after the gig, it was a party every night and always in the room that I shared with John as we were always the last to go to bed. I only messed up twice. One was a lunchtime gig at The Brecknock in front of 17 people when Duncan’s Dad came along and told me “I think you’ve got something there”, the truth is I had the world’s worst hangover. The other time was in France in a big theatre when I’d had a bottle of whisky before the gig and got a right bollocking.
Talking of people who loved to party, you must have got to know people like Gary Holton quite well. What was he like to be around when you were touring? He was a rare talent who could both excel as a frontman and a decent actor but knew how to party hard I’ve no doubt?
Yeah Gary Holton was a top guy, I remember going to his gigs in the very early days when he used to come on stage in his top hat and tight leather trousers “ello ow are ya”. As a frontman/singer he was unique and he came on tour with us quite a bit and knew how to party! I had the Heavy Metal Kids first two albums and saw them quite a few times. He sort of attached himself to us and would turn up on our tours. He was very enigmatic, a great character and a true star, I wish he were alive today.
You once had a few choice words for a certain Led Zeppelin drummer didn’t you?
Yeah, and I was a big fan of Bonham and Zeppelin. We were playing at the Roxy and in the middle of the song this big, fat bearded guy appeared at the side of the stage saying “can I come and play” and not recognising him I told him to “fuck off”. When I found out later who it was I felt extremely embarrassed.
Talking of other bands was there much rivalry with others on the road? Who were the best bands you toured with? Were you someone who would check out the other bands or not?
Other bands loved touring with us, we were always a party band and had a great time on the road.
The highlight tour was of course the Ramones, what a band! And a great set of guys too although we didn’t socialise with them much. We had some great gigs with The Jam, Generation X and John Cale. I never really checked out other bands, I was only really interested in what we were doing.
How different was it touring with the Ramones, do you have any highlights from that tour?
We had a great time touring with the Ramones although as I said we didn’t really mix or travel with them. They were very strict and there was only Marky who wanted to drink, and he was fined $100 for getting pissed with me and John after a gig in Glasgow.
There were lots of opportunities in the ‘70s for bands to do television shows that are sadly long gone. Are there any that stand out for you? It must have been great flying to Germany and other such places to do TV?
The German TV show was just after Cas had left the band and we were embarking on a French tour. We had a private jet to fly us in for the show and back again afterwards. John Craig came with us and he was freaking out because I’d had a few drinks at the rehearsal. It was a free bar as it was charged to the record company. So every time we went up to the bar we charged the round to CBS instead of Safari and they ended up with a massive bill. I copped off with the girl in the “Y” T-shirt and there was all sorts of shenanigans in the hotel as she gave me a wrong room number and I ended up bursting in on an engaged couple.
The Whistle Test was a highlight, we were live and I’m still proud of that today. And also playing two sessions for John Peel.
You got to sing on The Yobs album was that an altogether different proposition for you? Were you out of your comfort zone or did you enjoy being the frontman?
I was completely in my comfort zone, it was great to scream out a few songs. I thought The Yobs were a fantastic band, and I think we should do another album.
Is it true that the cover of ‘Boys Only’ album came about because of a packet of cigarettes? And did you see the writing on the wall as far as drumming went after that album or was it a gradual thing?
Yeah we were probably thinking about John Player Specials, black and gold. I think it was Matt’s idea again, he used to have loads of great ideas. I’ve still got all the original Polaroids from the ‘Boys Only’ photo sessions.
It was very disappointing when ‘Boys Only’ didn’t have much impact, I still think it’s a great album. I mean ‘Weekend’ is a definite summer song, should have been a massive hit. It was clear at that time that we were finished and it was a depressing time for me because I didn’t want to play for anybody else.
Moving onto after the band called it a day you never played with anyone else why was that? What about having any offers from other bands or session work put your way? Did you ever regret ending your time with the band? It must have been a big deal to walk away from rock and roll like you did?
John and myself rehearsed with Hazel O’Connor for a while and we should have appeared in the film Breaking Glass but we pulled out at the last minute. I also worked with John in The Rowdies and on the Stride/Plain ‘New Guitars’ album. John kept telling me about numerous offers for me to play drums with various bands but I kept saying I wasn’t interested. When The Boys decided to call it a day I was so gutted about it I just didn’t want to play for anyone else. I’d had the time of my life with The Boys and it was over so I decided to move on.
It still upsets me today, we should have been massive. I just cannot put into words how gutted I was, and not just for myself but for the others too, and especially for Matt, Cas and my best mate John. Without Matt and Cas there would never have been The Boys, although of course Cas went on to be very successful with Holton/Steel. You can talk all you like about Paul Weller (even though he’s stood the test of time brilliantly), Johnny Rotten, Mick Jones, Joe Strummer etc. but I tell you Matt Dangerfield was as important to the punk movement as any of them and he really should be remembered today as much as they are. Matt was arguably the best songwriter of his generation as well as being in the top two or three singers in the punk movement.
Incidentally I was mortified to see Johnny Rotten doing butter adverts recently, some reactionary!!!
After the band you found your niche in board games! How did that passion for entrepreneurialism come about?
I’ve always been fairly creative and have invented loads of games, pastimes and ways to entertain people. As The Boys were coming to an end I met a guy whilst in the barbers, we got chatting and he was interested in one of my games and Tightlines was quickly published. It was a fishing game and it sold a few thousand copies, it made me more money than I’d made playing in The Boys.
I’ve come up with numerous ideas since, my current project is a backgammon/chess like game with dice called Eights and hopefully that’ll get released commercially sometime soon. It murders backgammon as a game but everyone knows chess is the world number one.
I also invented a darts game Jack Black’s Halve It through which I raised over £1,000 for Help For Heroes and Comic Relief. I asked Duncan for a copy of Avatar for a prize, but he wasn’t able to help.
I’m hoping to meet Mike Ashley, the Newcastle United chairman about my roller scarf idea so watch this space.
Winding things up? Steve (Metcalfe – The Boys manager these days) said you were the man with the memory regarding all things ‘Boys’. When can the world see these scrapbooks you kept? And when is the definitive story of The Boys going to see the light of day? I think it would make fascinating reading and something a lot of people would be interested in reading?
Yeah I was the guy who took all the photos, kept all the press cuttings and kept diaries of the time. I have hundreds of Boys photos, most of which have never been published and loads of stories to go with them. I’d love to write a book about The Boys and publish my photos so if there’s anyone out there who can help please get in touch.
What are your thoughts on the new record? Have you kept in touch with the ‘Boys’?
The new Boys album is absolutely brilliant, I wish I was drumming on it as it’s just up my street and I just hope it has the success it deserves. As soon as you hear it you know it’s The Boys, wonderful power guitars, awesome harmonies, great humour and incredible songs. My favourite is a song called ‘I’m A Believer’, I just can’t get it out of my head. I would have loved to have played on it but the drumming is great, it’s exactly how I would have done it.
I always receive a Christmas card from Matt, designed by his son, and we speak now and again. I speak to Cas a few times a year and every Christmas Eve I give him a call and say, “Hi Cas, guess who?” and he starts laughing. I speak to the Big One (John) every now and again but not nearly enough.
I was just wondering, have you heard Duncan’s debut solo album?
Duncan’s album doesn’t do a lot for me. There’s lots of Boys rip offs in there but it’s too lightweight, there’s no power and the lyrics are weak. I hear that his live shows are dominated by Steel/Dangerfield and Plain classics and that says it all. If you like that sort of thing you should listen to The Twinkles or Bijou, a great French band we played with at the Gibus (Top Hat) Club in Paris. They are both three piece bands but boy did they make a lot of noise.
And finally. It would be lovely to see the original line up of The Boys take the stage once more in the UK especially for those of us who were just a shade too young first time round?
I’d love to play with the Boys again but because of my health problems, especially my back, I could only manage one or possibly two numbers live. I got a big compensation pay out for my back but I spunked it up the wall (I’m not very good with money!) I don’t know how welcome Duncan would be though, you’d really have to ask the others.
Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts with me. I wish you well and good health.
And thank you too Dom. I’d just like to finish by thanking everyone out there who recently sent me get well messages when I was in hospital. I was overwhelmed by the response, it means so much to me to know there’s so many people out there who care. If anyone would like to get in touch with me feel free to email me at [email protected]
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Many thanks to Jack Black for also allowing us access to his Boys photography archive.
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